並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep41-%E5%84%AA%E9%9B%85%E8%82%B2%E5%85%92-%E5%A5%B3%E7%A5%9E%E8%82%B2%E5%85%92%E8%A1%93-%E4%B8%BB%E6%92%AD%E9%BA%A5%E7%8E%89%E6%BD%94-%E7%8F%BE%E8%BA%AB%E8%AA%AA%E6%B3%95-%E4%B8%8B/id1548232768?i=1000528130887