並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E4%B8%81%E5%AD%B8%E6%96%87%E7%9A%84%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C-ep83-%E9%80%9A%E8%86%A8%E6%98%AF%E7%96%AB%E6%83%85%E7%9A%84%E5%BE%8C%E9%81%BA%E7%97%87-%E6%9B%B4%E6%98%AF%E5%85%A8%E7%90%83%E5%BF%85%E9%A0%88%E9%9D%A2%E5%B0%8D%E7%9A%84%E5%9A%B4%E9%85%B7%E8%80%83%E9%A9%97-%E6%8B%9C%E7%99%BB%E4%BA%9E%E6%B4%B2%E8%A1%8C-%E8%81%9A13%E5%9C%8B%E5%95%9F%E5%8B%95ipef%E5%8D%B0%E5%A4%AA%E7%B6%93%E6%BF%9F%E6%A1%86%E6%9E%B6/id1545511347?i=1000564653837