並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E4%B8%81%E5%AD%B8%E6%96%87%E7%9A%84%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C-ep80-%E9%81%93%E7%93%8A%E7%8B%82%E7%80%89%E5%8D%83%E9%BB%9E-%E7%BE%8E%E5%9C%8B%E8%82%A1%E5%B8%82%E5%B8%B6%E4%BE%86%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC%E8%AD%A6%E8%A8%8A-%E7%9D%BD%E9%81%95%E4%B8%89%E5%B9%B4-%E4%B8%89%E8%90%AC%E4%BA%BA%E6%93%A0%E7%88%86%E5%B7%B4%E8%8F%B2%E7%89%B9%E5%AF%A6%E9%AB%94%E8%82%A1%E6%9D%B1%E5%A4%A7%E6%9C%83/id1545511347?i=1000560246587